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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
502
   |
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
The "reason" behind "the alpha problem" is twofold:
1) logistics. You have to burn through logistics.
2) The side which first reduces the applicable DPS output of the other fleet sufficiently so their own logistics can easily keep up, wins. Spreading fire across multiple targets means you take out larger chunks out of the other fleet at a time, but the other fleet has more DPS for longer. Unless, of course, the other fleet has enough logistics to counter the incoming DPS on each ship being hit.
Alpha isn't "the problem", it's the response to another game feature, which again isn't necessarily "a problem". |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
502
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
I've been part of more than one frigate gang with 100+ people in it. We took out quite a lot of battleships in that swarm before we were killed below critical mass, and setting a limit on how many ships can lock a single target not only would ruin that, it sounds remarkably dumb as well. Why should something someone else does (lock a ship) have any affect on what I do with the same ship? |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
502
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rico Minali wrote:I agree that large scale combat needs to be a bit more dynamic and exciting but if you dont take part then you dont have any reason to post this thread.
The main thing here that needs to be changed is SOV mechanics. And probably titan guns, but I'll leave that for someone else to ***** about. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
505
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 16:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:Show of support for getting dev time for fixing the Alpha problem.
Let's take a look here. Supposedly there is an alpha problem. What is this alpha problem? "Too many people shooting at the same guy, so logistics can't keep him alive", right?
Mirima Thurander wrote:we all know the HP buff did nothing to curb the Alpha problem
Nope, because we've just brought more people.
Mirima Thurander wrote:we know there's a large part of eve that hates the Alpha problem
Oh really. Where are these statistics supporting this viewpoint?
Mirima Thurander wrote:we know there a large part of EvE that wish for a more tactic's filled game*
I, for one, want more strategy when taking over systems, but it doesn't involve "nerfing alpha".
But, let's presume we've nerfed alpha somehow. We can't solve it by nerfing HP, so let's solve it by nerfing the amount of people who can lock a target. And to be fair, let's separate them into two groups, fleet members, and non-fleet members. Suddenly, buffer, resists and logis become king, and as long as you have sufficient amount of logis in your gang, you'll practically never die.
Next thread "aaaaa nerf logis". |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
506
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 18:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Except logis will end up forcing every fight to a stalemate.
Fun fights, indeed. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
506
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 18:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
If you want to add more tactics, then CCP should do something about the on-grid probing. That's killing off the age-old tactics of sniping, and is a much smaller change than pissing about with trying to do weird things like "fixing the alpha problem". |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
507
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 19:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
One question: Why do you think "alpha" is being used? |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
507
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 20:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
What constitutes a blob? Where do blobs most commonly appear? |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
508
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 21:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ioci wrote:Lord Zim wrote:One question: Why do you think "alpha" is being used? It has already been said. To get on the killmail.
Nope. To burn through the HP before logis kick in and save the guy.
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:Altho i would change allow to demand .. just to be on spot..
Something what Taiwanistan said on the other thread... simultaneous attack on three spots .. to weaken an sovereignty then the "HQ" or something like that..
I don't think we'll want to talk about having some sort of "HQ" or something, I'd want the SOV system to be simpler, not filled with more rules. Personally I'd like to see if it could work with a system that allowed for systems along the front line to be lost and retaken daily so we'd have a sort of tug of war thing going. This'll probably prove to be too lenient, but the minimum that needs to be done with the SOV system is to make sure it's not as easy for the defender as the current system is, where they only have to win a single fight to reset all progress the aggressor has gained,w hich means they keep making sure they have number superiority, which means more people, more supers, etc etc etc etc etc, until we have 3000+ in a system and CCP are bitching at us for stuffing too many people in to one system. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
508
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 21:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
I wasn't actually in that fight, us ~evil goonies~ weren't there to save the NC, remember? |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
509
|
Posted - 2012.01.13 05:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
You'll find that's how all EVE combat is, large scale or not. If you take a 3v3 fight, if all 3 concentrate on burning down the other fleet 1 by 1, while the other fleet is shooting at their own targets, the fleet taking down the other guys 1 by 1 will win because they reduce the incoming DPS by 33% way before the other fleet has taken down anyone. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the fleet taking down the other fleet 1 by 1 were to survive without a loss. Add logistics to the picture, and this gets even worse.
The only way you can realistically get "better combat" in EVE, is if they reworked the entire flight mechanics to be more like X-Wing etc. Good luck with that. Apart from that, the only thing you can hope for is that CCP rework things like the SOV mechanics so it's more natural to spread out your forces rather than throw up to 3k people into the same system. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
509
|
Posted - 2012.01.13 08:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote:Focus firing really should be changed so it is not the only viable tactic for viable fleet fights.
Let me introduce you to the concept of the bomb. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
510
|
Posted - 2012.01.13 10:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
I see them working just fine rather often. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
512
|
Posted - 2012.01.13 16:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
One shot sounds like "instapop". Three shots sounds like "oh dear, their logis outrep your damage, so sad". |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
512
|
Posted - 2012.01.13 17:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:so yea, i wonder if i could get a forum mod to come in and clean up the thread.
It could be cleaned up by removing it in its entirety. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
513
|
Posted - 2012.01.13 18:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
So, uh, "supersexysucker", have you ever done any programming whatsoever? |
Lord Zim
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
515
|
Posted - 2012.01.14 10:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
And your "pipedream" won't happen until CCP removes logistics entirely from the game, and even then the fleet concentrating on taking down the other fleet one by one instead of trying to take out everyone at the same time by having everyone shoot their own target, will win.
Give up. Or fly bombers, and realize that you're using alpha here as well. |
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